Debate Forum Among Clallam County District 2 Candidates
Monday's Chamber of Commerce luncheon and Tuesday's meeting of the P.A. Business Association will both be providing a forum for the candidates running for Clallam County District 2 commissioner. The candidates are: Mike Chapman (incumbent), Dale Holiday, Sandra Long, Maggie Roth and Patti Morris.
posted by Tom Harper at 2:20 PM
106 Comments:
Good story on the TWO murders. Read all about it. Half the news that's fit to print!
http://tinyurl.com/888ks6x
Sucks that our prisons are full of pot smokers and people with expired green cards when WA courts seem to WANT violent people on the streets. Not justifying vigilanteeism, but some people can only live around scum for so long, before their own issues bubble up. And when you add poverty, guns and beer, hello 2012 style deterance.
12 years is long enough - especially for someone like Mike who, though not a deeply bad guy, is also clearly NOT a real leader. The good will associated with him is mainly due to the fact that he spent a decade going along with what the two more active Democratic Commissioners (Doherty and Tharinger) proposed. Now, with McEntire in there, you can already see Mike Chapman starting to lean to the (far) right. With all that in mind, I'm voting for another strong Democrat, Dale Holiday, to help keep the balance.
That's a good point about Chapman finding the path of least resistance being to follow McEntire's right wing agenda. He will not serve us well with another term in office. A good, solid Democrat is needed on the County Commission to counter McEntire. Chapman is a nice guy and I'd probably feel comfortable buying a used car from him, but he must go.
Dale doesn't seem to have any real spine, though. Sandy looks interesting.
Look what happened when we voted for Betsy. She didn't have the ability to stand up to the "Big Boys", and instead tried to get along and compromise. We got nothing.
Uh, Betsy (Wharton) was on the City Council, not the County Commission. Just to remind you.
And, having just come from the debate, I have to wonder what is "interesting" about Sandy Long. She's old, rambled on and on, and all I remember of what she said is the repeated refrain of "how much my husband and I love it here." Of course, she didn't mention that her husband doesn't actually live here - he's back in their REAL home in Louisiana.
She reminded me of Larry Little - a vanity candidate who doesn't really live here. Larry's moving back to his big house in Canada; maybe Sandy will go home to Louisiana when she utterly fails in this election.
Finally, I should just say that, as a "debate" this was way too short and not very usueful. Of the five candidates, only Dale Holiday and Maggie Roth had good, strong opening statements. Everyone else rambled and got all "aw shucks" and didn't really say much of anything. And those were the one thing all the candidates could prepare for. If you can't nail your own prepared, opening statement...Gimme a break.
Actually, I don't know of many more committed people than Sandy Long. She is so involved in Port Angeles, she barely has time to visit her "real" home -- I think she's gone to Louisiana twice in the last eight years or so.
Both Dale Holiday and Sandy Long are dynamic women who would be great Commissioners -- I think it's sad I have to choose between the two.
Why don't you all comment on the strengths rather than disrespecting one candidate against the other?
Not having an opening statement in a candidates' forum is very telling. It sounds like three of the "candidates" don't have a clue, and should drop out of the race immediately so as not to dilute support for the more viable ones.
Nice, old-fashioned sexism there. Betsy Wharton was a failure, therefore ALL women running for office are failures. Sounds like an Elect Mike Chapman press release.
ANYWAY...
Here are some of my impressions from the debate, courtesy of the notes I took.
Sandy Long said she is "excited about looking at what the Commissioners do." She then said she'd tell the audience her three key issues, but only mentioned two: Law and justice, and tourism.
Dale Holiday namechecked Sequim Valley Ranch, ACTI, Battelle and Lev-X as good examples of new economy successes locally. She also touted her experience on "both sides" of the permiting process, and offered that there are ways to make it a better process.
Patti Morris talked a lot about being raised on a cattle ranch, and said she thinks "Clallam County has potential." Apparently that is because we are also "relatively crime-free."
Maggie Roth came out swinging with what you'd probably expect: "Limited government is more responsive to people." She also told the audience that the Wild Olympics is still a VERY important issue.
Mike Chapman made it clear why he's the best choice in this election because...His wife married him instead of someone else she was dating when they met. Also, his sons are tall, really tall. And Clallam County has a fiscal record he'll "put up against any other government, not just nationally, but worldwide."
And the race is off! With some more off than others...
The monkeys in this state are frigging stupid, they voted the state out of liquor sales and now it’s just a big clusterfuck, and more expensive. I had to go to three different stores to find some Peppermint Schnapps, thanks for nothing, you stupid &%$#@*. And these stupid &%$#@* want to rule themselves through democracy.
Anon 11:16 AM, June 04, 2012:
I agree with you. But Mike is at least the incumbent. Dale and Maggie are the only ones who have it together enough to have campaign websites and articulate clear visions. They are the only three viable candidates. The other two candidates are just jokes, people without a chance of making it to the general election, yet alone beating Mike Chapman.
Neighbor,
Dale Holiday has a PhD in Planning, and project management experience, and private sector experience, and has taught at the college level, and is a published author, and fights youth drug abuse, and was even asked to do work for the country of Bhutan.
And if we were so lucky to have her serve three terms as a county commissioner, she'd still be younger than Sandy Long is right now, today. I'm not trying to be mean, or ageist, but I absolutely am saying that Dale represents the future potential of Clallam County in a much, much more powerful way than Sandy Long ever will.
I would urge all non-right-wing voters to really, really ponder that.
Mike Chapman, Chapter One
The head of Human Resources for Clallam County announced last year that she would be retiring. The HR Director position is the second highest paid position in the County government, and, as you might imagine, has a huge impact on the County workforce.
So, a group of elected officials and department heads got together, and took on the task of deciding what to do about this upcoming retirement. From all accounts, Mike Chapman took the lead in coming up with the following plan...
The plan was this: No job announcement. No regional or national search for a replacement. In fact, no open hire of any kind. Instead, an email was sent out to all elected officials and department heads (sound familiar?) informing them that, if they were willing to do a nine-month, "unpaid internship," to learn about Human Resources, then the director's job - the SECOND HIGHEST PAID POSITION IN THE COUNTY GOVERNMENT - would be theirs.
And so, after Mike Chapman helped put this plan into play, who do you think took that "unpaid internship"? MIKE CHAPMAN.
Yes indeed. Shades of Dick Cheney, eh?
Mike stuck with the "unpaid internship" for a while, but then apparently started getting some pressure and feedback that, gee, it might not look so good for him to continue down that self-paved path to job security.
So he dropped out. Which was, in fact, the right thing to do, after he had done the wrong thing.
Only by doing that right thing, Mike opened the door to a situation that was even worse.
Mike Chapman, Chapter Two
Once Mike dropped out of the HR Director "internship," a replacement had to be found. That's how they settled on Rich Sill, the guy who is currently "training" for it.
Now, never mind that the head of Human Resources sets the tone for the entire workforce. Never mind that everyone who is hired, fired, or has workplace problems comes through the HR department. Never mind that it's an area that deals with all manner of sensitive issues - the type of issues from which lawsuits are born.
No, despite all that, the fine folks running Clallam County thought nothing was wrong with very much NOT trying to find the most experienced, professional person possible to take that job. After all, why try to find the best person for the job, when you can just give it to a buddy instead?
And so, back to Rich Sill. Rich currently works in code enforcement. Not law enforcement - CODE enforcement. Despite the difference, he still insists on wearing a gun, and has a badge emroidered on his work shirts.
In his role as a manager in code enforcement, Rich allowed a situation of employee harrassment to go on. He not only allowed it to go on, but also encouraged it. Then, when the victimized employee complained, Rich fired him.
This harrassed, victimized employee then sued the County, easily and successfully, resulting in the County paying out a large financial settlement.
All as a result of the actions of the gun-toting guy who will soon be head of Clallam County's Human Resources. Or, as it may soon be known, the Lawsuit Generation Department.
Of course, all three Commissioners have to sign off on settlements, so all three knew what had happened. Mike Chapman knew what he was doing when he took the HR job. And he knew what he was doing when he approved Rich Sill for the HR job after he dropped out.
Knowing all this, I have a very hard time seeing Mike Chapman as the "good guy" a lot of people seem to think he is. And being that he was seemingly SO anxious to get out of his Commissioner's job that he would do something as ethically questionable as create a highly-paid job opening for himself, I have a hard time swallowing his BS about just "wanting to serve" the people of Clallam County.
Mike's no angel. He's a career politician who is only in it for himself. Is he a Republican? Is he an Independent? Why did he seek the endorsement of the local Democratic Party this time? What does he stand for? Who does he stand with?
Mike Chapman only cares about one thing - Mike Chapman. I just hope the voters get wise to it this year.
" Nice, old-fashioned sexism there. Betsy Wharton was a failure, therefore ALL women running for office are failures. Sounds like an Elect Mike Chapman press release."
That sure is a bit knee-jerk, don't you think?
The comparison to Betsy is valid if Dale can't stand up against the Clallam Republicans.
CA-FREAKIN-CHING
I've got a great idea to boost local business and tourism! Why don't we stay with the idea of putting the pics of sex offenders and addresses online, since we already do that, and still have plenty, and put GPS monitors on them and we can track their trips to the grocery, etc. on our I-Phones! Give them access to the system, to keep it "sporty" and will get much more of that Idaho market in Clallam hotels!
So, Max is at it again. This time giving the Mike Chapman, Chapter one and two that his wife (Dale Holiday) has been spreading around the courthouse for the last few months. That story is so full of misinformation it is actually laughable. By the way, the H. R. Director's pay is not even in the top 5 at the county, much less #2.
Wait, isn't Dale (and Max) currently feuding with the Girdle Scouts and the Clallam County Democrats ... because the CCD supports Mike Chapman and many members of the Girdle Scouts are active in the CCD?
I understand the race card got played as Dale stormed out of the GS rehearsal.
We already have one touchy, thin-skinned pawn of certain vocal special interests on the City Council - we definitely don't need a touchy, thin-skinned pawn of certain vocal special interests on the County Commission, even if she is Max's wife.
Seems like someone knows quite a bit about the internal workings of the Clallam County Department of Health and Human Services.
"Holiday, a grant coordinator and prevention specialist with the Clallam County Department of Health and Human Services"
So Melissa, you admit that the Democrats support a non-Democratic candidate? Isn't that in violation of the party's bylaws? What's up with that?
I was at PABA this morning and I agree with the posters who said this is a 3 way race. Long said she felt old at least 2 times that i heard.
I've voted for Chapman before but am not sure this time. He was pressed on how he's gone from Rep to Ind to asking the Dems to endorse him and didn't really answer why.
The interesting thing is that you folks are practicing democracy, ruling yourselves through this system.
Hahahahahaha.....
Oh well, the wise don't run for office, only those that want to waste their talents do. And many of them are talented, but hey, it's folitics.
Can it be changed and improved? Na....
Ah yes, the Mania Troll returns. No surprise there really. Back with the same meaningless claims of him being a "pawn of certain vocal special interests" without ever saying what those interests are, or how pissed off they are that their "pawn" is on the losing side of more votes than not.
So once again, deny and distract are the orders of the day. Girdle Scouts? What the hell does that have to do with a County Commissioners race? Oh, that's right, NOTHING. They're just another "special interest" group I assume.
Pathetic...
If there's a "feud" going on Girdle Scouts have a strange way of showing it, since they had Mania MCing their last shows. Since you are either lying or dead wrong about this (irrelevant) fact I have to assume the other "facts" you present are equally inaccurate. And like others I have to wonder what this has to do with the commissioner race exactly? And what your point is in bringing up such totally unrelated non-issues. Kinda looks like standard Republican distract, shame and blame tactics.
I am really baffled that my name is being used in this forum and think conspiracy theories are just a distraction from the real issues.
Whoever is creating and spreading these slanderous lies needs to stop and think about why they are running, run their campaign, and leave my name out of it. I am a voter and you're not working very hard to earn my vote! Plus it makes you look bad!
Also - I'm not Anonymous - I am Melissa Randazzo and I approve this message. :P
Seems like some people don't know that Patti was elected to Charter Review Commission a few years ago, has been active in the Democratic party here for a number of years, and was considering running for Mike's seat the last time he ran. I don't think that she was rounded up to run because another Demo. was in the race.
Sandy Long didn't even know what she was running as...Yesterday at PABA, when everyone was asked what their political party was, she said "I'm running as a Democrat. Oops! I mean..." So there are essentially three Democrats in this race, but only one seems to have done the prep and groundwork for mounting a campaign - and that's Dale Holiday.
Not that it matters to the Democratic Party because, as pointed out here earlier, the Democratic board is apparently supporting Mike Chapman, who is not a Democrat. It's confusing, but that's politics. Given all the factors at play, Maggie Roth must be feeling better about her chances to make it to the general.
I know a lot of people named Melissa. I didn't see any Melissa with a last name named here before Melissa Randazzo's response. Seems like someone's making some assumptions. Or has a colossal ego.
I sure looked back to see who "Melissa" was, that the post seemed to make reference to. Didn't make any sense to me.
And, I agree. The Dale Holiday folks are sure working to make Maggie Roth feel better about her chances. Too bad.
I'll be voting for Dale Holiday, because she's the most qualified candidate, and we need to have a Democrat on the commission, not a used-to-be-Republican who sways with the political wind. Chapman is already tilting to the right with McEntire there. If you want to see some of the reasons why I'll be voting for Holiday, check out her campaign website at votedale2012.com. I'd suggest that you compare and contrast it with the other candidates websites, but, none of them have one. If they aren't organized enough to do the basics, like a campaign website, or don't even know that it IS a basic now, then I have to wonder how they'd be expected to run the county govt well.
Didn't Dale Holiday use to work for the County Planning Dept? But isn't, now? What happened? Did she quit, or get fired?
Just curious.
I was responding to this where my name was called out - I guess whoever is writing and saying my name wasn't mentioned, failed to read the comments.
"Why would she do that you may ask? Because she's been put in as a Democratic vote splitter by the local head of the Democratic Party, Matthew Randazzo.
Why would he do that you may ask? Because he's working hard to get non-Democrat Mike Chapman re-elected, and he knows that Dale Holiday is a real threat to that happening.
So here comes Patti Morris, who used to work with Melissa Randazzo at Jace, as a last-minute "Democratic" candidate to split the vote. No one who knows Patti seems to have had any inkling that she was even considering running, yet here she is. Hmmm...
So, if Dale can stand up to the local head of her own party, she can sure as hell stand up to Dick Piling and Jim McEntire.
Randazzo is poisoning the local political scene, and all Democrats need to be aware of that dynamic when considering who to vote for."
then
"Anonymous said...
So Melissa, you admit that the Democrats support a non-Democratic candidate? Isn't that in violation of the party's bylaws? What's up with that?"
So yes, my name is being mentioned and I want it to stop please. I am not running for office, nor is my husband, and we have nothing to with any of the campaigns for County Commissioner.
Anonymous who is calling me out - why so anonymous?
Melissa says: "So yes, my name is being mentioned and I want it to stop please."
Oh, I missed that reference to you working at Jace. Thanks for clearing that up. I wondered what I had missed. Just didn't make any sense to me.
I still don't understand what Melissa has to do the the campaigns for County Commissioner, though.
"Did she quit, or get fired?" Yeah, you're just curious.
Now she manages a $1.25 million dollar federal drug prevention grant for the county. Since you're curious.
Anyone who doubts the accuracy of the information here about Mike Chapman should just talk with some County employees. They all seem to know what went down, and who was involved. It's one reason that Mike isn't very popular in the courthouse.
So, was Dale fired, or did she quit?
We're getting so much specific detail about Mike from "insider" perspectives, why dodge this question? Seems easy enough to answer. If she quit, why, and if she was fired, why? Let's hear all the details.
I'd just like to add something to the Mike Chapman narrative presented here. Actually, to the Rich Sill narrative. Rich Sill got the position despite having ZERO human resources experience. One of the other people who applied for the position had over a dozen years of human resources experience. Of course, SHE was a woman, so she didn't get picked. The good ol' boy network is very much alive and well here in Clallam County. And that good ol' boy network just doesn't like women trying to do things like, say, run for County Commissioner.
So...Anon 7:52, Since you seem to believe that 11 years of experience is THE ONLY criteria that should be considered when being selected for a job, then you must be supporting Mike Chapman (and his 11 years of experience as a county commissioner) to be reelected?
Anon 7:15 PM, June 07, 2012:
Gosh, you're just SO interested in this race, and in learning the facts, that you apparently haven't read a single news story about this - because all the news stories (even on KONP) tell you what all the candidates do for a living. And, more to the point, your so-called question was directly answered in a posting RIGHT HERE that was posted hours before you asked your question.
So, I have to ask YOU: How have you managed to miss the obvious facts of this race? Or are you just trying to imply (which is to say lie) that Dale Holiday doesn't work for the County?
Breaking news...sort of.
Patti Morris now has a campaign website...sort of.
The following is the complete text from her "On the issues" page:
"Issues."
Yes, let's talk about the "issues." With a vision like she has laid out, I feel confident that Patti will really appeal to the voters. At least those with short attention spans.
Who were the candidates for HR? I know Rich Sill is very capable and will do a great job!
Anon 9:26 asks "Who were the candidates for HR? I know Rich Sill is very capable and will do a great job!"
The request for applications promised that the names of all non-selected applicants would not be made public. I'm guessing that any that have done so, did it themselves.
"I know Rich Sill is very capable and will do a great job!"
How do you square that comment with the fact that he took part in creating a hostile workplace, fired the victim, and opened the doors for the County to be sued successfully by the victim? Or do you mean to say that he is "capable" of creating more workplace troubles and legal bills for the county?
As for the idea that I said that THE ONLY criteria for being considered is experience...That is false. (And the number your quote is also wrong.) But, given the incestuous and male-dominated nature of our County leadership, it is telling that the woman with relevant experience was not even considered, and the job went to a man without human resources experience. Then to another man without human resources experience.
Finally, let's be frank. The only thing that qualifies Mike Chapman for this position is that he's done it. His "real world" resume other than being a County Commissioner is pretty thin compared to several of the candidates running against him. And very, very few people are elected County Commissioner with experience being a County Commissioner, so it's a false comparison to make.
Besides, elections are different than hirings. Voters can, and do, go nuts and elect some pretty shaggy dogs. But when our businesses and governments HIRE someone, I'd like to think we all expect them to try and hire the most experienced, qualified and sensible person possible. That clearly didn't happen in this case at the County.
@ 7:49 AM
Are you on heavy medication, or just really trying to not answer a very simple question?
I asked a simple question. Was Dale Holiday fired from her former job with the Clallam County Planning Department, or did she quit. If she was fired, why, or if she quit, why?
Besides repeatedly not answering what seems to be a pretty simple question, you now launch off in a strange, accusatory rant " So, I have to ask YOU: How have you managed to miss the obvious facts of this race? Or are you just trying to imply (which is to say lie) that Dale Holiday doesn't work for the County?"
Hunh? How does asking if Dale was fired from her job with County Planning get turned into a "lie" stating Dale never worked for the County?
Please, check your dosages. It seems you're a bit "loose" there.
Anon 7:37 PM, June 08, 2012:
Right. I'll say it again. You'd have us believe that you're aware of this race, and interested enough to ask questions, but that you're not reading or aware of ANY of the coverage of this race (PDN, Sequim Gazette, KONP, etc.), all of which, as stated before, tells you exactly what each candidate does? And you didn't read the posts here that explained the same. And you apparently couldn't even Google this one question? You're obviously a VERY informed voter.
I'd also point out that you are (once again) using misleading statements. I never said you implied Dale Holiday NEVER worked for the County. I stated that it seemed you were trying to imply she doesn't currently work for the County - which she does.
So please stick to the (well established) facts, and stop making ill-informed misstatements and perhaps people will take you seriously. Until then, have a nice day.
LOL! This is getting interesting. Makes me wonder why I can't get a straight answer on such a simple question. Anyone reading this thread will come to the same conclusion. Rightly, or wrongly, it sure LOOKS like there is something to hide when someone goes to such ongoing lengths not to answer a simnple question.
And, no, I do not listen to that piece of crap called KONP. That station is an embarassment. Are we all supposed to live and breath every article about the County Commissioners race, as you apparently do? Sorry, but it just doesn't rank that high in my life.
At this point, I'm assuming there is must be something fishy going on concerning Dale.
"At this point, I'm assuming there is must be something fishy going on concerning Dale."
Sigh...SO MUCH effort on your part going into trying to make it sound like your question hasn't been answered, when it has been answered here several times.
Let's try again...
Dale
Holiday
works
for
Clallam
County
managing
a
$1.25
MILLION
DOLLAR
drug
abuse
prevention
grant.
What part of that do you not understand? What part of that is "fishy"? Have you really never, ever heard of someone leaving one department to take a job in another department? (Hint: It even happens in Macy's.)
Of course you have heard of such things. You're just grasping at straws, trying desperately to make it sound like there is some sort of scandal here. Which you know is not the case. You are merely trying to tear down the person who is the greatest threat to the incumbent. That much seems obvious. In fact, "Anyone reading this thread will come to the same conclusion."
But I'm sure you'll keep trying, troll.
Maybe you could try asking to see Dale Holiday's birth certificate? I'm sure there's something fishy there.
As I recall, the trollometer was running hot and heavy against Max Mania when he ran, and he won. I also seem to recall the troll being all aghast at Sissi Bruch's running, and she won. Now the troll is fuming about Dale Holiday running...
LOL! This issue only continues because you either do not know the answer to the very simple question, or have decided to avoid answering it.
I didn't ask what job Dale Holiday moved onto after she worked at Clallam County Planning. The question was very simple. Did she quit, or was she fired from her job at Clallam County Planning Department?
But, for some reason, you have never answered this. Anyone reading through this thread can see this plainly for themselves.
You ask "What is fishy?" Very simple. You, after all these exchanges, STILL refuse to answer a very simple question. Why?
It wasn't any big deal, initially, but your on-going dodging and groundless accusations make me wonder why. THAT is why this feels fishy. You, and you alone have made this into an "issue".
10:19 AM, June 07, 2012
7:15 PM, June 07, 2012
7:37 PM, June 08, 2012
12:32 PM, June 09, 2012
12:30 AM, June 10, 2012
My god, Matthew...You are certainly desperate to try and make Dale look bad, aren't you? Is this the best you can do? Really?
All for a question that has been (repeatedly) answered, most recently with: "Have you really never, ever heard of someone leaving one department to take a job in another department?" Dale left Planning to take her current job. Moving from one department...to another. It's really not rocket science, but I guess we're supposed to believe you don't "understand" this concept, therefore it's somehow, ooooh! suspicious.
Good luck with that "fishy issue"...troll.
I was a Chapman voter in the past, but he's been in there a long time, and it's good for our government to have turnover on a regular basis. I'm also troubled by the goings on in county hiring, especially this human resources thing. It's time for a change.
Given who is now in charge of the Clallam County Planning Department, some would consider it a badge of honor to have been "fired" by the woman. So - if Dale Holiday were "fired" by Sheila R. Miller and then immediately hired by other county officials to take charge of an important program, what does this say about Dale's qualifications?
It says to me that she was too great an asset to the county to lose. A number of fine, capable people have been lost to county service because of SRM's unprofessional conduct and questionable agenda. It sounds like Dale almost could have been one of them.
"Now the troll is fuming about Dale Holiday running."
Please show where ANY posts in this thread indicate ANY "fuming about Dale running".
I haven't noticed anyone opposing Dale running for office, just simple and valid questions being asked, and going un-answered. Lots of dodging, accusations and negatives coming from (what appears to be one) Dale supporter, but other than that..
"Given who is now in charge of the Clallam County Planning Department, some would consider it a badge of honor to have been "fired" by the woman. So - if Dale Holiday were "fired" by Sheila R. Miller ..."
WOW! After ALL the BS, FINALLY someone kinda answers the original question. "IF" is not very definative, but it is the closest thing so far.
Now, I must say I'm very disappointed in the conduct demonstrated by the Dale supporter on this thread. Anyone reading this thread clearly sees the baseless accusations and name calling in response to a valid question concerning a candidae for political office.
It seems to be fair game to question the integrity of all the other candidates, but even the simplest of questions concerning Dale Holiday elicts tirades of insults, baseless accusations and name calling. What does this inferr?
As I originally said, I was curious as to whether Dale was fired from her job, or quit. I didn't know, and was merely asking. After the above exchanges, I now have a less than favorable impression of the candidate.
I realize the comments of an "uber supporter" don't neccessarily reflect the true feelings or qualities of a candidate, but I can't deny that I now have that less than favorable impression of Dale.
Too bad for her.
At the risk of steering this thread back to reality, I'd like to say that I think our county is at a point where the old answers aren't going to work anymore. The budget is tight, and won't be the fabled "World Class Balanced Budget" without some hard decisions being made.
A lot of the problems we're facing come from a simple lack of foresight, as well as a locally occuring resistance to actually engaging the modern world. The Carlsborg sewer "problem" is a great example of these things. If the county had been able to simply engage the modern world, and/or to look ahead and see what was coming, the whole Carlsborg issue would never have dragged on and on. Money saved! Heartburn avoided!
Having the chance to vote for someone who has a PhD in planning seems like an opportunity we would be foolish to waste. It's a new century, and it's time for some new blood and new ideas on the county level. Trying to live in 1970 isn't cutting it anymore. We can either live in the future, or continue to slowly stagnate and die in the past.
It sounds to me as if Larry Williams is still reading and posting here. Too bad for the rest of us.
Will we ever truly be Larry-free? I mean, his Femme Fatale, Karen Rogers, is still here, as is his Soulless Soul Brother, Dick Piling. Omak's gain is not quite our loss, if you know what I mean.
As much as I agree Larry, et al were a bad era, I don't see evidence that he is posting here, recently. Please show me what makes you think so.
But, for some reason, the following thought came to me last night. Unfortunately, it's back to this issue about Dale's former job with County Planning.
As Anon 6:05 June 4th points out; "Dale Holiday has a PhD in Planning, and project management experience.." She was hired and held a job in the County Planning Dept. for a period of time. Great.
At some point, she either quit, or was fired from the job in Planning, and now (again quoting Anon 6:05) "fights youth drug abuse." Fighting youth drug abuse in Port Angeles is a good thing.
But my question is raised when Dale is offered to voters citing her "PdD in Planning" when she was either fired, or quit "Planning" in Clallam County. This seems completely relevant to her candidacy. If, in the performance of the very qualifications, in the very same county she is seeking elected office, she did something that caused her to be fired, shouldn't voters be aware of this?
If she quit "Planning", in favor of a job fighting drug abuse, what does that say about her interest and commitment to "Planning" issues, in the very same county she is touting this as a reason to vote for her?
Given the past replies, I can anticipate being called all kinds of things I'm not. I'm not "Matthew", or "Larry", or a troll. I'm not working on anyone's campaign, and at this point, don't support any particular candidate. I'm just someone with what I think are valid questions.
The differences between our (Democratic) choices here are pretty stark. I've visited both their websites, and here's a brief overview of what I found.
Patti Morris: In her "About Patti" section she talks a lot about her pets, and about things she worked on in another state over a decade ago. As mentioned here previously, her "Issues" page is blank. However, she does offer a lot of bottons for you to click on to donate to her campaign. No campaign manager is listed, so I assume she's going it alone.
Dale Holiday: Talks about her education, her work for the county, her recent article in "Planning" magazine, and her project management experience, among other things. Her "Issues" page is, if anything, too detailed, and might be more than most voters will take the time to read. Still, it's all out there for you to see. She has a campaign manager, and he's a retired rocket scientist! Which is kinda cool.
So take note, Democrats: Do you want to vote for someone with blank pages and pets, or someone with current relevant experience and details, details, details? No matter the race or office, I'll always go for the candidate who seems the most organized, focused, serious and energetic. In this case, that is clearly Dale Holiday.
As for the Republicans and Independents, well, none of those candidates have websites, so you're on your own to decide.
Right. Once someone has a job in one area or one department, they should stay there forever and ever, lest they be accused of "lacking commitment."
By your "logic," Mike Chapman should never have been elected County Commissioner - an office that oversees the law and justice budget - because by the very act of running for County Commissioner he was "lacking commitment" to his previous law enforcement career.
Right?
And I thought they tore down Troll Haven...
@Anon 10:22
Oh, puleez! Is it really so difficult for you to see that by promoting Dale Holiday's credentials and experience in "Planning" allows for valid and appropriate examination of those very attributes?
You can question every little detail of the other candidates with an appearant belief THAT is all fair game, but resort to insults when I ask a valid question. Either we all agree with every statement you make, or else we are "the enemy" (Matthew, Larry, a troll, working for some other candidate, etc). When asked to show where there is any evidence to support your statement: "Now the troll is fuming about Dale Holiday running.", you just avoid substantiating your insults.
Not very credible.
If Dale's great qualifications are in "Pl;anning", one of the primary reasons cited for why we all should support her, why isn't she doing that, any longer? If her new career objective is program manager for youth substance abuse prevention, having bailed out of the County Planning Department, then why cite "Planning"? Has she now decided, after a relatively short stint in drug abuse prevention, that she wants to get back into "Planning"? Was she fired by her superiors because she really wasn't that good at "Planning", which would have bearing on her promoting her "Planning" skills to Clallam voters?
Just say, clearly: "Dale resigned her position with County Planning so that she could manage the youth drug prevention program", if that was the case, or say "Dale was fired by the County, and then took the position to manage the youth drug prevention program". Is that SO difficult?
Cut n' paste the appropriate sentence, if need be. Let's clear this up, CLEARLY, without any further baseless accusations and name calling. Are you capable of doing this?
I appreciate candidates that have campaign websites, because if all we had to rely on for information was the PDN and KONP, we wouldn't know anything. Running for office is serious business, but our local media is a joke.
From 8:04 AM, June 10, 2012:
"Have you really never, ever heard of someone leaving one department to take a job in another department?" Dale left Planning to take her current job. Moving from one department...to another.
Your question is quite literally yesterday's news. In addition to being a troll, and repetitive, you also need to work on your spelling, and are repetitive.
LOL! Well, I guess we see no questions can be asked, without you spouting insults. So mature.
You likely cannot hear this, but trust me, your responses here did Dale no favors. With supporters like you, her oppositions should be quite pleased.
At least Maggie Roth is "going green" with her campaign - reusing signs from when her husband Terry Roth ran against Chapman last time.
"At least Maggie Roth is "going green" with her campaign - reusing signs from when her husband Terry Roth ran against Chapman last time."
LOL! Very funny!
You likely cannot hear this, but trust me...her oppositions is not good grammar.
I think it's time to kick all the incumbents out locally. They just don't get it. I'm voting against Chapman, Tharinger, and sure as hell not voting for Kilmer. He seems like a wimp and a puppet to me. SIX Republicans running for that seat, and only ONE Democrat? Seems like the fix is in there. No thanks!
Yawwnnn..
So, Patti Morris is a real estate agent. Great. Just what we need, more people with personal financial interests in our political representation.
Patti Morris has no more chance of being a County Commissioner than she does of becoming Pope. She's a vote-splitter, not a candidate. She is not intended to win.
I've looked at the PDC forms Patti Morris has filed (they're available on the PDC website), and here's what they show.
No campaign manager or treasurer.
No donors. NONE.
She has contributed a total of $50 to her own campaign. (Which, for context, is about enough to buy a medium sized clasified ad in the Peninsula Daily Snooze.)
Her website is essentially blank.
She has no mailing address to which her (nonexistent) supporters can send their (nonexistent) donations.
It's clear she's not a "real" candidate in any way, so I doubt very much you have to worry about yet another realtor getting elected locally. It ain't gonna happen. Another Dick Piling dream goes down in flames.
Yes but, these nutball vanity candidates are always kinda entertaining. It's beside the point that they can't get elected to anything. I mean, really, did Peter Ripley or David R. Fox REALLY, REALLY think they were gonna even come close to winning an election, ever? Facts and logic are tiny motivators compared to ego and delusion. So sit back, and enjoy the ride.
I know what you're saying has some truth to it, but anyone looking at the make-up of most local governments around the country see the real estate industry is very well represented. They have the money and the motivation. On a local level, most issue revolve around land use, directly, or indirectly. And real estate folks are the primary beneficiaries of those policy decisions, most often.
Anonymous 1:14 PM, June 14, 2012:
I totally agree with you point, and share your concerns. However, in this particular case, with this particular candidate, I don't think there is anything to worry about. I think the only way for Patti Morris to win even the primary would be for the other four candidates to all drop dead. Even then, I think a reasonable write-in candidate could beat her.
But as a general rule, I think it is wise policy to never, ever vote for a realtor. Or candidates closely associated with realtors. (Sorry, Dick! But not really.)
Some of you need to get a little bit better educated on the competition in this election. Patti Morris was elected to the Charter Review Commission by the voters. She has worked at Clallam County Sheriff's office as a Grant Writer and brought in a lot of money to various public safety agencies. She is not just a Realtor. She is well known to elected officials and works hard for various community organizations. I for one am voting for her as I know many people are. Want to know who people support look at all the signs she has up. Not one Dale supporter sign. Not one Sandy Long sign. Not one Chapman sign.
She is going to leave all of the opponents in the "Dust".
I was just reading your "Bashing" of Patti Morris and I am shocked. She is terrific and would make the best Commissioner for District #2. She is well supported and not by Dick Pilling - If you were up on the facts you would have seen that Dick contributed to Maggie Roth's campaign. Get your facts straight.
I just read this string of emails. It sure appears that Dale is writing a lot of anonymous emails. Why can't she just come out as herself or is she always going to hid behind anonymous?
Patti is SO terrific. I was SO inspired by the "Issues" page on her website - which is BLANK. I was SO inspired as well by her "About Patti" page on her website - which talks about her dogs, but not much about her education (or lack thereof) or any recent, relevant work experience other than the Charter Review.
As for campaign signs...Yes, they really DO show who is popular, don't they? That's why we still have Edna Peterson and Don Perry on the PA City Council - because they had lots of signs, so they MUST have won, right?
Five people running. Only two will make it to the general election. The two who absolutely will not make it past the primary are Sandy Long and Patti Morris. The only question is which one comes in fourth, and which one comes in fifth. They are laughable ego candidates, nothing more.
I am voting for Patti Morris. She has the experience and leadership needed for the job.
What do Edna Peterson and Don Perry have to do with a County wide election? This isn't a City of Port Angeles position.
Websites aren't the only means of communication. The writer must not be very educated on social media and other ways to get the word out.
Patti who?
Hey Anon 4:33 AM, June 16, 2012:
My point, which was crystal clear by the way, was that signs don't really mean anything in an election. But your brain might be a little slow to grasp that, being that you're up and posting on blogs so early in the morning. And so many little bitty posts! I guess that means you're scoring more points for Patti?
I've been out and about in the county today, and did see some Patti Morris signs, and they were often paired with those "NO NEW WILDERNESS - NO WILD OLYMPICS" signs. Not exactly a real enthusiasm building pairing for Democratic voters, Patti. We're the party that tends to LIKE the environment.
I get it. Patti has signs and so she's going to leave her opponents in the "Dust". Does that mean that when other candidates start getting their signs out that they'll all win?
Thanks all the same, but, I'll make my choice for County Commissioner based on facts, candidates positons on the issues, and their education and experience. In this case, I also look for someone who is able to meet the physical demands of the job, which are long, long days and lots of travel. My ideal candidate would also be an example, a symbol of the better days to come, someone who is a teacher and a real leader. Not just someone who can afford a lot of signs or ads.
I just saw my first Dale Holiday sign.
I think signs are actually important. It's good for knowing who you're voting for. For example, there was a candidate who used comic sans on her sign. Can you believe that? Obviously I couldn't vote for her. And I hope the first person who uses Papyrus gets thrown out of office too.
I've seen three Dale Holiday signs today.
Comic sans? Typo? Or please explain.
Yeah I did see a couple of Patti Morris signs, and they were coupled with those anti-Wild Olympics signs. Weird combo for a supposedly Democratic candidate.
It seems the anti-Dale Holiday troll has run out of straws to grasp at and has gone back into hibernation. Good, and good luck, Dale. You've got the support of so many people. The people who want to help Clallam County grow and evolve into something better than it currently is. You're a ray of light and hope in the dark.
Realtor candidates cannot be trusted to care about anything but money. As far as I'm concerned, people professionally involved in the real estate and building industries should not be allowed on policy/law making positions.
Too many examples where land use decisions have been made specifically to benefit those voting.
There never was an "anti- Dale Holiday troll". Just an intolerant supporter who cannot grasp that it is relevant and important for the public to be able to ask question of political candidates.
Grow up.
The ironic thing about all these politically active realtors is that 99% of the time they pursue policies that actually depress the value of land and homes. Their (Republican) ideology totally blinds them to the reality of the market. In simple terms, environment = GOOD. But realtors (like Patti Morris) take oppositional stances to things like the Wild Olympics, because in their eyes, environment = BAD. They lose sight of the fact that very few of us want to live next to a mill, a smelter, or a clear-cut.
"There never was an "anti- Dale Holiday troll". Just an intolerant supporter who cannot grasp that it is relevant and important for the public to be able to ask question of political candidates."
Bad grammar aside...I have to point out that you, dear troll, were NEVER ASKING QUESTION(S) OF (A) POLITICAL CANDIDATE. Not once. You were merely posting on a blog. There is a big, big difference. Now, perhaps you actually took the time to check Dale Holiday's website and email her your question, but I kind of doubt it.
Care to prove me wrong?
Sigh... Do we really have to go through all this stupid shit, again? Do you really think you're doing Dale any favors?
You don't know how I am ( although I have a pretty good idea who you are, and don't want to embarrass Dale and yourself by saying so), and rest assured, I'm no troll.
You may want to continue with your "defense" of Dale. From my perspective, you have no choice. The rest of Clallam County is not so wedded to the outcome of the County Commissioners race. Really.
You've accused me of being Matthew Randazzo, Larry Williams, a Mike Chapman supporter, as well as other things. Yeah, you sure know it all. I'm all those people, all at once. LOL!
Just grow up a bit, and look around.
Anon 11:33 PM, June 18, 2012
"You don't know how I am..."
Oh, I think we all have a pretty clear picture of how you are...
LOL! Oh, you are just such a clever guy. You must be so happy you never make a mistake,like calling me Matthew Randazzo, or Larry Williams. And, God forbid your finger slips, and you should make a typo.
That clearly is a more important issue.
Sigh.
No, actually, I meant it. I DO think we all have a pretty clear picture of HOW you are. You raise supposedly "fishy issues" and then, when they are batted down, you just ignore that and move on to making a new "fishy" claim. That is HOW you are, that is HOW you operate. Notice HOW you breezed right by the question of whether or not you actually asked Dale Holiday any questions? Classic troll. And so, I'll stop feeding the troll now. Enjoy your stew.
"The rest of Clallam County is not so wedded to the outcome of the County Commissioners race."
Oh, I get it! "Wedded." You think we're Max Mania! Ha ha, that's pretty clever. Yessir.
Unless... you also said "you sure know it" and "I'm no troll" so maybe I have that wrong and you think we're Gravilo Princip...
Tom -
Please end this thread.
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