Farmers Market “versus” Downtown Business?
This letter appeared in today’s PDN:
[sigh] Where to begin? First of all, practically everybody thought Gateway was a waste of tax money before and during the construction. Personally I’m glad it’s here, now that it’s a done deal and it’s up and running. But when it was still in the planning and debating (oh that’s right, there wasn’t any debate) and construction phases, the following would have been the worst drinking game imaginable: Ask people at random what they thought of Gateway — the cost, the purpose, the benefits. Every time you got a positive answer, you could knock back a shot of your favorite poison. You’d still be stone cold sober at the end of your “survey.”
Any business owner (I’m not one myself) will tell you that continuity and consistency are crucial. It should be crystal clear why the Farmers Market vendors want their customers to know where to find them. If they’re at the courthouse one week, Gateway the next week, then the courthouse, then Gateway — they’ll lose customers. Simple as that.
And what kind of conflict could there possibly be between downtown business and the Farmers Market? When the Farmers Market was exiled (or whatever you want to call it) from downtown Port Angeles four years ago, the consensus (well, almost) was that downtown merchants were losing business. The eviction of the Farmers Market meant that the Farmers Market’s customers weren’t coming downtown; they were at the courthouse or wherever the market’s location-of-the-week was. And fewer shoppers downtown meant fewer customers for downtown stores and restaurants.
I too hope the Port Angeles City Council “wakes up” and disregards that letter.
“I was shocked after reading the article in the September 11 PDN that the folks who are in charge of running the Port Angeles Farmers Market are looking for exclusive use of the Gateway [Wednesdays and Saturdays].
I remember walking through the Farmers Market when it was on Laurel Street during the construction of the Gateway and hearing vendors call it a waste of taxpayers money. Now they want exclusive use.
The Gateway was paid for by all taxpayers and therefore should be available to those who want to use the pavilion for whatever reason, so long as they pay the rent. I want to know why the farmers market executive director thinks the market’s needs should override the downtown business and events?
I personally do not shop the farmers market because I feel they have a “better than thou” attitude.
Port Angeles City Council, wake up and do not grant an exclusive contract to the farmers market. Remember, elections are coming.”
[sigh] Where to begin? First of all, practically everybody thought Gateway was a waste of tax money before and during the construction. Personally I’m glad it’s here, now that it’s a done deal and it’s up and running. But when it was still in the planning and debating (oh that’s right, there wasn’t any debate) and construction phases, the following would have been the worst drinking game imaginable: Ask people at random what they thought of Gateway — the cost, the purpose, the benefits. Every time you got a positive answer, you could knock back a shot of your favorite poison. You’d still be stone cold sober at the end of your “survey.”
Any business owner (I’m not one myself) will tell you that continuity and consistency are crucial. It should be crystal clear why the Farmers Market vendors want their customers to know where to find them. If they’re at the courthouse one week, Gateway the next week, then the courthouse, then Gateway — they’ll lose customers. Simple as that.
And what kind of conflict could there possibly be between downtown business and the Farmers Market? When the Farmers Market was exiled (or whatever you want to call it) from downtown Port Angeles four years ago, the consensus (well, almost) was that downtown merchants were losing business. The eviction of the Farmers Market meant that the Farmers Market’s customers weren’t coming downtown; they were at the courthouse or wherever the market’s location-of-the-week was. And fewer shoppers downtown meant fewer customers for downtown stores and restaurants.
I too hope the Port Angeles City Council “wakes up” and disregards that letter.
posted by Tom Harper at 12:56 PM
33 Comments:
I still think that all in all the Gateway was pretty much a waste of money.
But if the farmers market wants to be there and wants exclusive days to insure continuity I certainly understand that.
Will they be able to resist the call of the cash?
The thing is - if they let the market have exclusive rights without having to pay, will they allow other groups and vendors the same privilege?
Slippery
Slope
Ah, the farmers market isn't paying for the space?
Well, I'm not sure how I feel about that, after all, they are taxpayers and are helping pay for it.
Maybe all groups should be able to have free use of it being as it's them that as much as paid for it anyway?
If the city wants to make it a business venue they can just damn well take it off the tax rolls and make it or break it on their own, like any business has to do.
Of course the Market pays for the Gateway space just like everyone else. Whoever said the market was going to get the space for free was incorrect. This misinformation is how bad feelings and misunderstandings get started.
They got the first couple times free, as kind of a trial. Maybe that's where the rumor came from. I'm pretty sure they had to pay after that. And I can see where they'd want consistency. I wanted to go there last week, but they were up in the courthouse. There was a lot of people shopping there, more than I see shopping downtown at any given time.
Talking to one of the booths at the Farmer's Market, I was told they pay $75 a pop to be at Gateway.
At the Courthouse, they pay $75 per month.
So I'm wondering what it costs to use that space now.
Being as I'm in the county I don't suppose I have anything invested in it.
I'm thinking that maybe city residents should get it at a cheaper rate than county residents if there is going to be a fee at all for its use.
Is there a cleaning deposit required in case someone doesn't clean up their mess? Or does the space rental cover cleaning?
Come to think of it, considering my lack of interest in it I wonder why I even wonder about any of it.
Hey, I wonder if I can rent it and go camping there for a few days.
Anyone else want to do a camp out at the Gateway with me?
Yes, the Farmers' Market pays for the space. And as the last Anonymous commenter pointed out, they need consistency. If people don't know where they are, they won't go looking for them. The Farmers' Market being downtown helps all the businesses downtown. More foot traffic means more shoppers. It's a great use of the Gateway.
The Farmers' Market being downtown helps all the businesses downtown.
Are you enjoying your delusion? Folks shopping for organic food aren't interested in the other stuff there.
The farmers market would do just fine anywhere that it was known that it would be there when it is supposed to be there, preferably with easy no hassle parking.
I'm sure it would do just fine at Lincoln Park, or for that matter, out on the spit.
And they would really pull them in if they sold organic pot, hell, half of the cops in this town would be there if they could get some decent pot instead of the crap they take from the evidence locker, ha ha ha.
costs 75bucks a day. The Farmers Market needs to be nicer to the neighbors in the area, though. That is what got them ousted from downtown before. Bad attitudes...and the entitlement.
The market just didn't listen to the valid complaints some of the merchants had. They still aren't.
The local merchants are having to deal with the Wednesday market...and it's hurt business, go ask them. The lack of parking (vendors mostly) and the lengthy delays for the vendors to set up (blocking sidewalks, etc.) is really difficult. There are some bad feelings already that the market gets to have A frame signs that merchants have to to get a permit for (and the A frame market signs aren't even of "legal" size). Merchants are hard pressed to stay afloat as it is, between the rising taxes and the lower tourism.
I suspect it is what did in the cool deli we had. (I'm so sad about that.) Before they closed, they said admitted the Wednesday market drove down sales by more than half -- which may be what contributed to what killed them. Small business like that was already on the edge. That's no economic improvement.
I have an idea, why don't they just buy their own property? Then they can all fight each other about how to use it.
bbc,
why buy the cow when you can get the milk carried to them on a velvet pillow and everyone can fuss over them and cater to their whims.
Hey, they have a city council woman to gloss things over and make it all nicey nice...
"The local merchants are having to deal with the Wednesday market...and it's hurt business, go ask them."
You don't think all the "big box" stores that have been built in Sequim have had any impact on the merchants in Port Angeles? I see so many "Port Angeles" plates on the cars in the parking lots there.
Sequim has completely screwed Port Angeles in terms of any retail stores. Most folks now just drive over there to do all their shopping in one area, all at once. As it was designed to do. Sequim never had the population itself to keep all those stores going, but it was envisioned people from Port Angeles would shop in Sequim. And they do.
I wonder if Home Depot, Costco, Sleep Country, Office Depot, Petco, and the others in that area came to Port Angeles first, and asked to locate their operations in Port Angeles?
Dear 9:59am
What does Sequim and the big box stores have to do with how the market conducts itself in relation to their neighbors downtown?
You're mixing apple with nut, and heavy on the nuts. Try sticking to the topic.
since when can you identify "port angeles" residents by the plates? Do you know something that I do not?
Uhhh, you might be thinking about the license plate frames which announce which dealership the car was purchased from? Guess what, genius, there are no dealers in SEQUIM.
In fact, there are no dealers in Port Hadlock, Port Townsend, Forks, Joyce, Chimacum......
So, tell me, aside from being psychic..how do you KNOW that the license plates are Port Angeles citizens?
"Try sticking to the topic"
Dude, no one's stuck to a topic on this blog for more than three or four posts.
Any minute now someone will submit a post fulminating about Bob Stokes, Max Mania, Edna Peterson or Doctor Nosferatu.
I only shop in Sequim a few times a year, at Home Depot. I just don't shop much period.
I need more stuff like I need more holes in my head for things to leak out of.
To anonymous who talked about the demise of the deli: Are you talking about Spicers? I hope not. I have not been in there for a while since I have been traveling. But if it is them you are talking about - I suspect it was more the unbearable building process of Gateway that did them in. I hope they had business interruption insurance because certainly they were ill effected by the endless clanking of the post driver or whatever that was at the beginning of construction.
Seems to me there should be continuity for the farmer vendors. That makes sense. There should also be some preset rules about parking their supply trucks, signage, cleanup... they should consider putting that on the city or port site. They should also post rules and a fee schedule for those interested in vending there.
Most businesses that are fussy about the market being downtown are short term thinking - or simply refuse to see the positive aspects of people being down by their businesses and walking around.
You know what makes people not want to shop downtown? Mean clerks, apathy, ugly smelly building, not selling what the people want and outrageous prices.
Consider that.
not selling what the people want and outrageous prices.
Ah, I believe that would be Necessities and Temptations. But I guess if it wasn't for the outrageous prices on what she does sell they couldn't make it there.
The clerks are okay there though, when you can get ones attention. Helen wins gift certificates there that she wins through the radio station contests, that's the only time we go in there.
"Dear 9:59am
What does Sequim and the big box stores have to do with how the market conducts itself in relation to their neighbors downtown?
You're mixing apple with nut, and heavy on the nuts. Try sticking to the topic."
So, you think that the downtown merchants, and the business community in Port Angeles is unaffected by the big box stores in Sequim, and the only problem they have is the Wednsday Farmer's Market?
Not that you care, but I rarely shop in Port Angeles anymore. And from the closed up shops, vacant buildings, and layoffs in Port Angeles, I might guess that I'm not the only former Port Angeles shopper who has had enough of the bad attitudes, poor service and over priced goods ( IF you can even find what you want), and now shops elsewhere.
ANYWHERE but Port Angeles!
Yes. Spicer's is gone. Died in July. Closed up. Vanished one night. Literally. It was like a death in the family when I went there for lunch and it was gone.
I doubt there is plans to revive it.
The owners were always upbeat and polite, but one of their employees told me the deli was hanging on by the skin of is fingernails because of the dismal summer tourist season.
I must admit, even I stopped going there on Weds, when the Farmers Market started clogging up that end of Lincoln all day (from 10am on, all day long, for an evening market, or something stupid like that).
It wasn't just me. Spicer's went from having a decent Wednesday lunch crowd to a ghost town. Their sales were cut by more than half (a former employee told me). Businesses just can't have that kind of drop in receipts. It probably amounted to about 1/5th less revenue. A big blow to any business, but even more dire for a small one.
The Farmers Market created a fuss, a big obstruction. There was no where to park, as all the street parking was taken up or blocked off. And, in this town, all it takes is one day like that, and people will just avoid the area from then on. I admit, I do it myself.
I think the Market was the kiss of death. Doesn't take much to run a business OUT of business.
In a bad tourist season, they probably held on as long as they could. I think the Wednesday market commotion was the nail in the coffin. (You try to live on 1/5th less wages, and see what that does for your ability to manage. Rents don't go down, utilities don't go down, food costs don't drop.)
I think this summer was really critical, because everyone's sales have been way down, and the ferry traffic has been very, very light. Economy sucks which causes less tourists. It was the perfect storm.
If I were the owners, I'd be mad as hell at the market. I don't think the Market gave them any regard, either. Did the market reached out -- come in, have a chat with them, (even to warn them) or try and find out how they could minimize the impact, or how they could work together, or if they could help them? I asked the owner that, and he just smiled and shrugged. I got the feeling that the answer was NO
The owners were a class act. They were always gracious They took a lot of pride in the place -- always clean, food was always quality. Really nice people. Great place. I think, with all that stock, and all, they probably lost a bundle of money. It's a shame, they really tried to make something great for this town.
I don't think the people who run the Farmer's Market care, one way or the other, about anyone else but themselves. They seem pretty self centered. But, that's the problem with Port Angeles --we aren't really a community as much as collection of competing interests.
Meanwhile, the rest of us don't have a great sandwich shop and a treasure trove of interesting spices. The place was a gem, and as far as I'm concerned the Farmers Market shit on it.
Spicer's leaving surprised me. I kept hearing good things about that place, went to try it and it was gone, just like that.
I'm not surprised about the problems the Farmer's Market creates at the Gateway. Look at the Gateway. There's no way to drive in and unload, it's only partly covered, it doesn't exactly have a stage area. It honestly looks more like an outdoor bus depot, which is all I assumed it was. It doesn't look like it was designed with a marketplace in mind, or having bands in there.
In fact, I'm wondering what it was designed for. Were there certain goals in mind before the architect sat down to design it? I know what we've got is a scaled-down version of what they were aiming for. Was a marketplace one of those goals? What *are* the goals of the Gateway?
I still say the best place for the Farmer's Market, if it has to be downtown, is on Oak St, where the buses used to be. Plenty of room there, and it's mostly out of the way. Plus that section of town needs something. It looks like it's failing fast.
Speaking of failing, sounds like Bank of America is leaving downtown. That's going to be a blow. I'm not worried about small shops going out because those will be filled sooner or later, but the large buildings like that or Gottschalks, that's not good.
Too bad about Spicers. They could have made lemonade out of the market by handing out flyers at the market and letting people know they were there. Oh well, that is a moot point. She certainly could now sell her spices at the Farmers Market. if you can't beat them... Anyway, I am not entirely sure - given the obvious facts (and my own experience as a long time food related business owner) - that the Farmer's Market CAUSED that deli to die. Bummer tho.
I liked Spicer's, too. They had really interesting stuff, always different stuff, and the best selection of spices around.
However, to blame their demise on the Farmers' Market is just plain ridiculous. Blame it on people who see more traffic than yesterday, think "Hell, I don't want to park where I have to walk an extra 100 feet to get to Spicer's. I'll go somewhere else where I can park right in front."
Also, what really hurt everybody down there was the Gateway construction, followed by the sidewalk project -- for several years, it was impossible down there.
What I'd like to know is why the self-proclaimed "Downtown Association" isn't involved at all? Shouldn't they be trying to make this work? Isn't that what they're supposed to do (and why we pay such outrageous fees to them, and why they pay their "Director" $50K a year?)
We have lots of "government" in Port Angeles and none of it is doing much to help us.
SS,
No Spicer's could NOT sell spices at the farmer's market...because the market only allows things grown in this county or an ajoining county. As far as I know, Nutmeg and Cassia are NOT grown locally as they are tropical plants.
The market would not have allowed flyer hand outs. And, I believe they did distribute menus to every business in Port Angeles, as well as, other advertising.
I don't think it was because they didn't try.....seriously. No one makes that kind of investment and just sits on their hands.
You pay your PADA membership fee and you get a monthly copy of Barb's mushy tribute to a certain "sculptor."
America's Coolest Small Towns:
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-interests-29955069;_ylc=X3oDMTFzNmlnbGFnBF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEX3MDMjcxOTQ4MQRzZWMDZnAtdG9kYXltb2QEc2xrA3NtYWxsdG93bnMtMTAtMy0wOQ--
Note what makes them cool ... and that the peninsula has none of these things.
to this poster who said:
Farmers Market. if you can't beat them... Anyway, I am not entirely sure - given the obvious facts (and my own experience as a long time food related business owner) - that the Farmer's Market CAUSED that deli to die.
Ever hear the expression "straw the broke the camels back"?
It may not have been THE reason, but I suspect it was the last nail in the coffin.
And, from my own experiences with the market...they probably are guilty of Schadenfreude! Snickering about the demise as we speak. I would not find that atypical given their attitudes towards their many rejected vendors, and others who've experienced their wrath and arrogance.
"America's Coolest Small Towns. Note what makes them cool ... and that the peninsula has none of these things."
See, what's bad is we *DO* have these things. Look at what the article mentions... Sidewalk chalk event, we have that, kind of. Biking, we have some excellent trails and some places that could be excellent trails. Snowboarding, we have Hurricane Ridge, when it's open. Wineries, we have some pretty good ones up here. Art, well we've got a lot of artists up here now.
We'll got all those things. There's just something... missing. Port Angeles isn't taking advantage of what it's got. There's too many overlapping government agencies. All the talent has been chased out of town. And too many people think this is the best town ever, without really taking a look around it.
I think this town has potential. I really do. But it's being wasted, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
Why is it that just about every business on Lincoln between Front and Second Streets goes out of business?
The Delaney's space, the Mexican grocery and taqueria and now the second-hand children's clothing store are empty. I never see anyone in the little crafts store or the flooring store, so I assume they're just hanging on. That section of downtown seems to be a dead zone.
There is NO PARKING on Lincoln between Front and First, which is why only the odd stinky bar survives. The part of Lincoln from 1st to 2nd, are just challenging -- because people "forget" about the stores there. For whatever reason, the foot traffic is all either people going to the tavern, the gym, or headed to Safeway.
This is a tough town to do business in.
To the person lamenting Bof A bugging out:
The other branch up on 8th is going to stay in biz. It makes sense. They have the infrastructure in place (like safe deposit boxes). I hear they are not going to lay off, but instead place them in nearby branches. That has to be a relief to those families.
To the farmers Market haters: maybe a group should consider banding together and forming their own Market and schedule their own regular time at Gateway. You could sell whatever you see fit. Let us know when you will be there. I will come and buy.
Z-person,
There IS another market. The Port Angeles Community Market will start up in March for the Sunday market at the Gateway.
This year was a wash....started too late to get enough regular vendors, so lots of optimism for the new year.
Starting in March...come out on Sunday.
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