City Council Upholds Biomass Permit
The Port Angeles City Council has voted to uphold the Planning Commission permit for the biomass project at Nippon Paper Industries.
They will issue more information tomorrow.
They will issue more information tomorrow.
posted by Tom Harper at 12:29 AM
36 Comments:
Permits to begin construction are no guarantee that the project can or will be completed. Remember what happened with the Graving Dock.
Given the city's history and track record, I'm not optimistic.
I also think it is unfortunate that the decision makers cannot step back, and look at the "Big Picture" when they consider these proposals.
Yes, one new job will be created by this bio-mass incinerator. But, with the smokestack being raised another 75 feet into the skyline, and double the amount of materials burned, with double the amount of trucks delivering woodland materials, what will be the impacts to property values in the area?
For the sake of discussion, perhaps potential home buyers, contemplating a property with a view of the enlarged smokestack, will decide that they don't find that view attractive, and don't buy. Property owners lower their prices just to get somebody to buy it, regardless of its' views and surroundings.
Will anybody here dispute that property values in Gales Addition are lower than those in other parts of Port Angeles, that don't have Gales' "issues"?
So, with all the properties within the view shed of the mill, how many will see a lowering of property values? One percent? Five percent? Of 800 or ? properties?
I don't doubt that the "gain" to the community of that one new job will be greatly offset by the loss of revenue to the City from diminished property taxes. And to property owners when they try to sell.
But, the decision makers are not guided by staff to consider these things.
Once again the Friend to the Eco-Whackos, the Champion of the Unsuccessful, the Puppet of Darlene and Norma has struck a mighty blow for the squawk-a-doodle Leftists!
Poor, poor Max "Mania". Once again playing the part of the Sad Clown, the juvenile prankster, while the six adults on the Council do the serious, thoughtful work.
Squawk-a-doodle do!
The Japanese Corporate Office for Nippon must be very pleased at the many ways American citizens are so willing to help fatten their company's bottom line. Electricity rates for the mill that are so cheap that it makes economic sense to keep buying all the electricity to run the mill from the BPA, while selling all of the biomass generated electricity back to the grid. Another big plus for Nippon's Corporate Profits: building the new plant with the help of millions of dollars of federal stimulus money.
Can we please think about a big picture accounting of the overall balance sheet here?
Locals get residential utility rate increases, suffer the consequences of higher federal debt, and breathe-in the adverse impacts of an industrial incinerator in their midst every day for their lifetimes because -- why? Jobs?
Might we take a lesson from other towns that put too many eggs in one industry's basket? Maybe, like Flint Michigan. (Watch the Movie "Roger and Me" for hints.) At least there the profits GM reaped before pulling out of that town stayed in the USA.
Anonymous at 5:58 am: I'm glad Max Mania has the courage to stand up against something he doesn't like. What a shame he's the only one who thinks independently.
The United States definitely discourages people who can actually think. Just like Japan, where the nail that sticks up must be pounded down.
I appreciate the thinking process, and I don't intend to EVER just join the rest of the sheep.
Why don't you try thinking for yourself instead of going "baa baa"?
I see the Squawk-adoodle-do clown is back.
Yes, I see the "Squawk" doesn't mind that the Mayor and other council members ignored the citizens, and proceeded with what they thought was a "good investment" by "loaning" HarborWorks all those hundreds of thousands of dollars. Their project failed in its' mission, their professionalism questioned by participants, and the money lost.
But the "Squawk" obviously doesn't care about that very public failure of leadership. They just come here to throw mindless insults around. Poor pathetic person with nothing of substance to say.
"What a shame he's the only one who thinks independently."
Well, considering he's the puppet of Norma, Darlene and a variety of eco-whacko groups, sure he's certainly as "independent" as an amputated leg.
Say, does this mean you leftists are going to WHartonize Cheri Kidd and Dan Di Guilio when they come up for re-election next year?
Baa baa, yourself, "Mania" Zombie!
"Baa baa, yourself, "Mania" Zombie!"
Oh, Edna is back. Too bad. Now the threads here will be cluttered up with her trash talk. I wish she could just accept that the voters didn't want her back in office. I wish she could accept the "will of the people", and actually believe in democracy.
But, instead, she comes here to try and build a momentum against Max Mania with her silly name calling. I don't understand why she can't see that her name calling only shows what a poor loser she is.
Maybe you eco-wackos who are worried about "pollution"-oh my!-oughta wonder why there is not an outcry against the BIOMASS INCINERATOR right smack in the middle of Seattle: http://www.seattlesteam.com/
...and they burn CONSTRUCTION waste! The Nippon boiler will burn only CLEAN forest/timber harvest waste!
Why don't you just admit it, it's not about "pollution" or "forest health", it's about killing good family-wage jobs-to achieve your socialist utopia!
Go away-you stink.
Oh here we go again. I'm Edna, eh? Sorry to disappoint you, Squawk-a-Doodle- Squadroanire, but I'm not Edna. Nor am I Kaj, Dick or anyone else your puny brain could think of. You have no idea who I am, so quit trying to smear Edna.
I can understand why you all hate Edna. She's successful! She employs people! And we all know you're against success and employment - which is why you're all squawk-a-doodle about "Mania", the jobless "artist" who is living off wifey and endless unemployment bennies.
Many people in this town don't like "Mania" and his backers such as Darlene, Norma and Diana - not to mention the carpetbagging eco-whackos from Seattle that pull their strings.
9:49 PM - Good post! i doubt you'll get an answer to your question. A biomass stack in Seattle is okeh - it's their biomass stack and it's painted green and the athiest libs burn patchouli incense before it and the Earth Goddess is happy and blesses the salmon. We, on the other hand, can't have one because that would keep Nippon in business, keep 200 people employed and ruin the "historic shoreline".
Right. You got us! Boy, we can't hide anything from you.
Yes, "we" are trying to eliminate all family-wage jobs to achieve our socialist utopia. (Man, did someone send this guy our secret brochure or what?!?)
Our plan - our evil, until-now-secret-plan - has been to eliminate all family-wage jobs. This will then lower the taxes coming into the Federal government. And this, yes this, ah ha! will leave us precious few dollars with which to put in place our socialist utopia.
Right. You bet. Does anyone really believe this crap? More to the point, does anyone spewing this Glenn Beck-lite foolishness ever actually THINK about it?
Yeah, those "socialist" Democrats want to do away with jobs, to limit the amount of funds available to the government, which will then not be able to afford to do or pay for anything - not even food stamps for the "socialized" masses.
Put another way: If those "tax and spend" liberals really want to kill jobs - who are they going to tax in order to have funds to spend? It makes no sense, and has no relationship to reality.
Look at the facts: Job growth and economic growth were both booming under Clinton, and unemployment was fairly low. Contrast that with the job growth and employment figures for the eight years that Bush the Second was in office - when things were, at best, stagnant.
Translation: Tax cuts for the rich don't help the economy - only the rich benefit. And fueling the deficit by cutting taxes while borrowing money to pay our bills is not sound fiscal policy.
Generally speaking, the Republicans have run UP the national debt and size of government, and Democrats then have to come along and try to fix things.
Clinton left us with a budget surplus and a healthy economy.
Bush the Second left us with a record deficit and an economic meltdown.
Simple facts, folks. THINK ABOUT IT.
"And we all know you're against success and employment - which is why you're all squawk-a-doodle about "Mania","
Look around, Edna. The ONLY person that EVER mentions Max Mania is YOU. The ONLY person that tries to divert ALL topics posted on this blog to SOMEHOW be about Max Mania is.. yes.. YOU.
Really, you should go over to the Peninsula Mental Health center and have an evaluation.
"Look around, Edna."
Again, I'm not Edna.
Boy you Edna-haters are really something else!
All this anti-biomass blather is gonna do is destroy the credibility of our environmental movement that we have fought so hard for. We can't tout biomass all these years and then turn around and say it's "dirty." After all, how many of us have attempted to live off the grid with wood-burning fireplaces?
C'mon people, there are more plausible fish to fry, we need to choose our battles carefully!!!!
"Again, I'm not Edna."
Yeah, I remember Nixon saying that he was not a "crook", too.
Sorry Edna. You've given yourself away far too many times.
Hey Asshats (Diana, rest of her ilk)...I gots news for ya: Many, many homes in Clallam County already burn biomass...they're called WOODSTOVES.
And they DON'T have scrubbers like Nippon's boiler WILL.
Get over yourselves.
"All this anti-biomass blather is gonna do is destroy the credibility of our environmental movement that we have fought so hard for."
and:
"And they DON'T have scrubbers like Nippon's boiler WILL."
I see these posters do not understand the issues very well. Perhaps they might want to learn more about the issues. I can see they want to support Nippon, as most all of us do. But not at any cost.
The point of "discussion" about these topics is to end up with the best solution, after the relevant issues are explored.
You will note that the State has convened a group to explore the availability of sufficient bio mass materials to operate the proposed incinerators. Clearly, this is a concern shared by people outside of Port Angeles.
There are no "issues" that haven't already been explored in the permits.
You and your ilk need to stop making things up, like the poster "just sayin' does in the PDN website. The mill will NOT burn medical waste or anything else other than clean forest slash.
Stop the misinformation campaign.
"Karen" sez:
"There are no "issues" that haven't already been explored in the permits.
You and your ilk need to stop making things up,.."
As I said, you need to do some research, and understand the issues involved.
The following was in the PDN only 4 days ago:
"Forest biomass supply research team chosenThu Dec 9, 2010
OLYMPIA -- The state Department of Natural Resources has selected a research team to study forest biomass supply in a project that is the first of its kind in the nation. The University of Washing... "
No, I'm not holding my breath that you will offer an apology.
Apology? You're a twit...this has already been addressed; the biomass availablity study will determine how many biomass facilities (and size of each) the peninsula can sustain. There will be more built that you can likewise scream like Chicken Little over.
It has ALREADY been determined that the Nippon facility will only use less than HALF of what is available.
Now go worry about something really pressing, like the declining numbers of African elephants or somethin....or better yet, get yourself a good hobby.
"It has ALREADY been determined that the Nippon facility will only use less than HALF of what is available."
Right, Karen. Even if you're exactly correct, that's the point. If Nippon is using HALF of what is available, then how will that work with numerous other facilities supposedly coming on-line? Will they each be fighting over their share of the HALF left that Nippon isn't using?
The point is, no one really knows how much "fuel" is out there. The point is, no one really knows how much demand there'll be. The point is, over all, no one really knows how this is all going to work in the long run - or if it will work in the long run.
Oh, and FYI: Making unrelated and insensitive cracks about endangered species? That really, really helps make your point, and really, really helps us all take you so seriously. No - really.
"You and your ilk need to stop making things up,.."
I don't see how you can construe that I was " making things up"?
The article was dated only 5 days ago, weeks and months after the PA Planning Commission had its' hearing. The study is current, not done.
But, that's fine. You can believe what you want. You can continue to think that by insulting people, it somehow will change the outcome.
I can understand that you are frustrated and angry as you see the world change, and the way you used to do things is changing. The world community has seen the negative effects of industrialization since the days of Charles Dickens, and has been working to make things better ever since.
Scrooge didn't support changes, then, either.
I WAS serious about the African elephant comment. That's my point, there are SO many pressing, more important issues for ya greenies to worry about...like Victoria dumping raw sewage in the strait...tons of it EVERYDAY....
Besides, Nippon is ALREADY burning biomass...and you can't be pushing BIOMASS all these years and then all of a sudden flip-flop on us when our represenatative has fought for it, and the state has already given its blessing as a GREEN industry! But then again I guess that is the usual for you libs - ala John Kerry.
Are you worried about all the other biomass burners in Clallam County...aka WOODSTOVES? Are you concerned about Seattle Steam burning toxic construction materials?
Hey!...I wonder if Somerville has a woodstove???
Burning "biomass" and wastewater treatment plant sludge at the higher temperatures planned for the new boiler will produce more dioxins and toxic emissions than the existing burner emits. These pollutants fall into the water and upon the downtown and densely populated residential areas. And they will do so for years to come --- dooming the Port Angeles community to maintaining the dubious distinction of having one of the highest cancer rates of anyplace in Washington. Not to mention higher than average rates of other health disorders caused by exposure to industrial contaminants.
Maybe some people think an ounce of prevention might be worth a pound of cure, and are trying to prevent another Rayonier Mill fiasco from happening at the other end of the harbor.
"That's my point, there are SO many pressing, more important issues for ya greenies to worry about...like Victoria dumping raw sewage in the strait...tons of it EVERYDAY..."
Hey! Yer showing your ignorance again. If you read the papers, you would know Victoria has designed a state-of-the-art treatment facility, and is working through the processes to get it built.
And, I sure never promoted burning forest products to generate electricity.
Let's play a little math. There are 70,000 people in Clallam County. Men, women, teenagers, and babies. If each one burned a ton of wood each year to heat their homes, that would be 70,000 tons. Nippon proposes to burn almost 200,000 tons, all by itself. (Imagine babies stoking up the woodstoves in their own homes!?)
Can't we do better than this?
What is up with all these "Chicken Little" wannabees who continue to claim that Nippon is going to burn tires, waste sludge, biotoxins, etc., etc.?? It has consistently been reported that in order to qualify for the green energy credits, nothing but clean, forest leftover biomass is ALL that will be burned. Much, much cleaner than is currently being done, creating electricity and steam from burning slash that would otherwise be burned in piles, outside, to no one's benefit.
You're tryin to talk sense. The libs ain't gonna listen.
"La la la la la la la!"
Good gawd...you eco-liberals are dumber than a box of rocks. So you'd rather they burn oil? How 'bout coal? lol!
They could burn a million tons of forest slash and their emissions will probably be lower than 100 woodstoves because of the extremely high temperatures in which the biomass is burned in addition to the scrubbing technology!
You need some REMEDIAL math...obviously.
...and that's the problem...you have no scientific argument against this project...just empty rhetoric.
Have there been any air quality problems to date with their old biomass boiler that is nowhere near as efficient as the new will be? Why are ya squakin' now?
"Good gawd...you eco-liberals are dumber than a box of rocks. So you'd rather they burn oil? How 'bout coal? lol!"
Ah, yes, the side step.
(Just a tid-bit for you, in terms of your continuing reference to "eco-liberals". You know that famous "conservative" Ronald Reagan supported, believed in and ate organic food, grown by those "eco-liberals"?)
Your defense of the Nippon proposal assumes that they HAVE to expand their power generation, and that the only choices available are forest biomass, coal or oil. Fortunately, there are other choices.
For the sake of argument, would Nippon even be proposing this increase in their power generation capacity, and the sale of power to the public,IF the federal government (taxpayers) were not offering them millions in subsidies? If Nippon had to pay for this expansion out of their own pockets, would they be doing this?
This project is not proposed because Nippon does not have enough power to continue to operate as a paper mill, this is so that Nippon can get into the power generation business at the expense of the taxpayer.
We all know, that as a result of the dam removal project, that Nippon negotiated a lowered, subsidized power rate from Bonneville Power Authority (power that comes from non-fossil fuel hydro plants). How many taxpayer subsidies are the "conservatives" in Port Angeles going to support? At what point is "private enterprise" going to be self supporting? (This goes for ACTI, as well)
The health statistics show that Port Angeles is a cancer "hot spot". Why? It must be because of all the clean living we all do out here, right?
There are so many issues to confront, and so little time.
Of course, Edna will come back with her completely predictable "eco-wacko-liberal" refrain. Yawn.
Thanks, Anon 9:23 AM for pointing out that Nippon receives many, many subsidies from American taxpayers and utility ratepayers, and likely would not even be operating here today but for these and the promise of more to come. If the mill had to compete in the free market without these subsidies and government hand-outs, it would have left our shores long ago.
Thanks Darlene/Norma/Diana for your looney tunes drivel. You've subtly made your point - Nippon and ACTI must be shut down, immediately!
Jobs? Don't need 'em! Especially with those endless unemployment bennies that Obumble is handing out (ask Max, he knows!).
There are nearly 300 jobs between ACTI and Nippon - and ACTI has the potential to ad many hundred more. 800 people could be employed between them.
But they're the "wrong" people. They're hard working (unlike Max), successful (again, unlike Max)and they probably aren't interested in turning the Peninsula into a hippie-dippie Socialist commune run by a bunch of fluff-headed drop outs and radicals from Berkely. Yeah, better shut those jobs down, now!
Let's ignore FACTS and get rid of those jobs and those potential jobs and turn the Nippon site into a yoga studio. We need another one of those - BADLY!
Uh huh. We know what you're up to and we know your mouthpiece Mania does exactly what you tell him to.
Have you talked to the tweekers under the Laurel Street stairs yet? You've got nearly eleven months to get them up to speed for the city council elections!
Edna says "They're hard working (unlike Max), successful (again, unlike Max)and they probably aren't interested in turning the Peninsula into a hippie-dippie Socialist.." and
"You've got nearly eleven months to get them up to speed for the city council elections!"
Are you going to run against Max, again, Edna? Will you EVER accept that the voters had a choice, and when it became a choice between you and Max (completely unknown in Port Angeles before he ran for city council), the people chose Max, not you. After all your very public activities, the public knew about you, but they chose Max, instead of you. Ya wonder why?
So, I see you side step the issues, once again, and get right back to insults. Reflects only upon you, my dear.
So, you DO support socialism? You support the government, using taxpayer money, to create jobs that otherwise would not exist?
You say "There are nearly 300 jobs between ACTI and Nippon - and ACTI has the potential to ad many hundred more. 800 people could be employed between them." Do you want to add up all the millions that the taxpayers are paying to ACTI and Nippon to create these jobs?
Let's be clear. You're the one saying these businesses should be shut down. I have not heard anyone else say this.
You are the one saying " ...they probably aren't interested in turning the Peninsula into a hippie-dippie Socialist commune...", but seem to be defending all the subsidies and "incentives" that the "socialist big government" under "Obumble" is providing both ACTI and Nippon (amongst others).
As has been pointed out here previously, more that half of those employed on the Peninsula are outright employees of that "big government". Are you saying they all should be fired, too?
Other than really boring rhetoric, what are you really saying, Edna? Besides that you still are mad at Max for winning, of course.
Lots of side-stepping the issues, here, it seems. Why can't there be a discussion of whether it is worth it to the American people and local residents to subsidize Nippon to such a high degree?
Nippon cannot make it on its own without hand-outs and subsidies from the government. Maybe it is a worthy welfare case, Maybe the trade-offs are worth it. Why can't that be discussed here?
What is it worth in real money and subsidies out of everyone's packets to maintain the Nippon Mill in Port Angeles?
Might the price we all pay ever be too high?
"Nippon cannot make it on its own without hand-outs and subsidies from the government. Maybe it is a worthy welfare case, Maybe the trade-offs are worth it. Why can't that be discussed here?"
It can be, and should be. There are interested people here. You just have to ignore that one person who tries to hijack all topics. But other than that, go for it!
Yeah...go for it...we won't hold our breaths while you try to make something up....
"Yeah...go for it...we won't hold our breaths while you try to make something up....
2:45 PM, December 25, 2010"
Are you saying that Nippon is NOT proposing to use millions of dollars of taxpayer funds for their biomass project? Are you saying that fact is "made up"?
Just trying to be clear, here.
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