Property Tax Levy for Civic Field?
Judging by most of the comments at the end of the PDN article, this is probably a non-starter.
posted by Tom Harper at 2:52 PM
Sunday, January 23, 2011
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- Location: Olympic Peninsula, Washington, United States
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23 Comments:
I'll say it's a non-starter...could it be the City is getting ready to abandon Civic Field the way they did the swimming pool?
It would seem to me that there is any number of local outfits who could handle the drainage issue. It might be time for the community to unite and present a volunteer based solution. Firms involved would be getting tax breaks instead of tax increases. Individuals involved could stop feeling powerless and get on the business end of a shovel.
Really, how could we do this?
If we actually had a "community", there are many opportunities for individuals to band together to address problems that Port Angeles faces.
To some extent, this has been tried. Look at the effort to get that inflatable tennis balloon/playfield cover. Community members got together to get the structure, but the city did not follow through on its' end.
But, I do agree with you. There are many ways in which citizens can take over and provide a volunteer work force for the public good.
As JFK said 50 years ago this week: "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what YOU can do for your country".
To some extent, this has been tried. Look at the effort to get that inflatable tennis balloon/playfield cover. Community members got together to get the structure, but the city did not follow through on its' end.
I think the “Blister Dome” might not be the best example. First of all, this wasn’t a community function. The group that spearheaded the effort was hardly representative of the greater community at large. I believe Civic Field serves a much greater segment of the population, and would find popular support outside that group whose kids are too delicate to play out in the rain. Next, of course is funding. The Blister Dome exercise resulted in a cash outlay of 350k in Municipal funds for a project nobody wanted. (Or even knew much about until the deal was done) The Civic Field project would be looking to limit spending as opposed to finding ways for the city to fund what was essentially a special interest. I’m thinking more in terms of the Skate Park, or the Dream Park, but on a much larger scale. There are outfits in town completely capable of generating a site plan for this project, as well as backhoes in nearly everybody’s shed. I think finding someone conversant in drainage in a town like Port Angeles, would be about as difficult as finding someone who knows about auto assembly in a town like Detroit.
"I think finding someone conversant in drainage in a town like Port Angeles, would be about as difficult as finding someone who knows about auto assembly in a town like Detroit."
Yes, we see this with the city's huge CSO project! Why put rain water into an existing storm water collection system, where pipes already are run under the streets in most every neighborhood?
Just build a budget busting system that utilizes a toxic waste site, to further compound problems. Make the project so complex that few people understand it.
After you commit the city's resources to draining rain water into the city's sewage plant, and spend $50 million to do it, THEN you say "We can't afford to fix or maintain Civic Field."
I agree with your desired goals, don't get me wrong. But, just remember who you are dealing with.
How do you think the Port Angeles city council could pass the largest budget in it's history, and still be passing off responsibilities it used to have onto new taxing "districts"?!
It isn't going to propose a new taxing district to pay for it's employee's health care costs. They know THAT would never fly. The city will not propose a citizens' self imposed "levy" to increase taxes to pay for the fluoride they put in the water every year(even though hundreds/thousands of Port Angele's eligible voters SPECIFICALLY asked to be able to vote on this). WHY??
No, no. They are careful about what they propose the citizens be able to vote on, no matter WHAT they actually want. They only propose "either/or" votes on things that really hurt the kids. The pool, the football playing field. Things they feel are guaranteed to be passed off onto a new taxing group. They know the "kids" trump all other concerns.
Just like the Feb 8th school "levy". Of COURSE you can not vote against raising your taxes, when it comes to "kids". Waste all the tax money you want on HarborWorks, consultants, and multi-million dollar projects that just don't make sense. That is not what we're talking about NOW. We're talking about "kids", now. You can't oppose THAT.
Come now, and do what you are told to do.
Well, first off, school levies are how we’ve paid for education in Washington since 1889. A quick look at a history book will reveal that publically funded education was a primary factor in the decision for statehood in the first place. The school district has squat to do with how Port Angeles mismanages itself. That’s a separate issue…At 2.65 per thousand, the levy should be passed. It’s a bargain. But then, I’m not one of those people who thinks it’s all “for the kids”. See I’m crazy enough to believe that an educated populace is one of the keys to a functioning democracy. That we have a choice between a generation of unemployable malcontents or functioning citizens, and public education is key to affecting that choice.
When the teabaggers start up about “liberal utopia” I always have to laugh, as they grew up in that “liberal utopia”. They got their publically funded education. They had a fully funded ferry system. They had highways, bridges, infrastructure, etc., all paid for by that Liberal Utopia”. And they pissed it all away for tax cuts.
I totally agree with your sentiments regarding large, expensive, and for the most part useless projects in Port Angeles. The famous Bus Stop, Harborworks, the Blisterdome, Port giveaways like the Landing, etc. have absolutely destroyed any credibility the city may have had with its citizens. Add to that the Reganite idea that all taxes are bad and unnecessary, and you find yourself where we are now. Paralyzed.
I have very little hope for Port Angeles. As long as we keep electing real estate agents and small business types to the city council, we can expect the same result over and over. An endorsement from the Clallam Republicans or the Port of Port Angeles should, for the average citizen, be an immediate disqualification for further consideration.
But digging trenches and laying perfpipe should be something we all can get behind.
"See I’m crazy enough to believe that an educated populace is one of the keys to a functioning democracy."
I agree.
Might be one of the foundational problems in Port Angeles!
How about selling the property that is currently civic field and convert shane park into a new stadium. Most of the infastructure is in place I bet it would cost less than upgrading civic field, plus it would be one less thing the city would have to worry about maintaining. Manhours could then be used to maintain parks that have been neglected.
I think Shane Park has worse drainage than Civic... Before the park, it used to be a wetland, and was pretty much unbuildable. Jeeze, I wonder if there's anywhere around here that isn't under water in the winter months. Maybe we should forget about football and sponsor a water polo team!
"Jeeze, I wonder if there's anywhere around here that isn't under water in the winter months."
NOW you're looking at the real issues. I think any playing field will turn into a mud puddle, if subjected to the kinds of intensive uses Civic Field is.
I see Zenovic is advocating for artificial turf.
I see Zenovic is advocating for artificial turf
And Mr. Zenovic is absolutely correct. ..We need to be planning on artificial turf as essential. The REAL issue is of course, DRAINAGE, unless we want underwater artificial turf. And again, that aspect of the project could easily be addressed by volunteers. This subject has had lip service paid to it from time to time, but I believe a number of Dept. heads feel threatened by it. Instead of laptops for the crew over at city hall, we need to buy them some trench shovels and put those slackers to work.
Rachel said...
YES, they CAN die on the sidewalk...just like they would have back in the 30s or 40s. We can't take care of every turd leeching off those of us who work for a living.
Just scrape 'em off the sidewalk and keep on keepin on!
3:14 PM, January 26, 2011
Yes, I can see how Port Angeles cares, and people will donate to help others.
"Instead of laptops for the crew over at city hall, we need to buy them some trench shovels and put those slackers to work."
Good luck getting Max Mania to "work"! Is he still unemployed?
Note: I think this was posted to the wrong thread, so I copied it and pasted it over here.
Capitalist said...
Hmmm...
This is tough one, probably the best way forward for all parties is to form a cooperative.
Maybe Sequim, Clallam Bay, Joyce, Neah Bay, and Forks.
Pool resources and rebuild this facility so every coop member can use it.
Very similiar to what Bellingham did with its own Civic Field.
Freaking great idea (so the City will ignore it) Memorial Stadium in Seattle is the home field for every Seattle High School. It's worked pretty well for 50 years.
Capitalist's idea is perfect, please, please, please give it some thought.
WTF?, yes, i did post on the wrong thread, Sorry.
I will be passing my thought on to the City and the School Districts.
We'll see
"Good luck getting Max Mania to "work"! Is he still unemployed?"
GOSH! Don't tell me he might be unemployed?!?! The SHAME. Oh, the shame of it. I hope they are going to send him to the Federal penitentiary, and skip any trial. Your suspicions are enough for ME. Just that he MIGHT be unemployed is reason enough to send him to prison.
But, of course, he must be castrated right away. We cannot allow such gene stock to proliferate in our Homeland.
Are there any other members of his family that might alive? They must be neutralized, as well.
I just can't believe this. Just when I thought it was safe to go outside, again. I have to go barricade my widows and doors.
"But, of course, he must be castrated right away."
Too late! He's already had a vasectomy.
Capitalist said...
Hmmm...
This is tough one, probably the best way forward for all parties is to form a cooperative.
Maybe Sequim, Clallam Bay, Joyce, Neah Bay, and Forks.
Pool resources and rebuild this facility so every coop member can use it.
Yes, this has worked for Memorial Stadium, in Seattle, but economies of scale are different there. For one, only ONE School District is involved, Seattle Public Schools. They happen to have 12 High Schools, all within 15 miles of Memorial Stadium, to draw from and pay for the cost. Neah Bay, Clallam Bay, and Forks are each more than 50 miles away, and having Football games, in their communitites, is a great community building activity. They cannot possibly participate in this "co-op" plan. So that leaves Sequim, P.A. and Joyce. 3 High Schools, 3 different School Districts, not enough $$ to make it work on their own. Now, maybe partnering with the College, pay to add lights and bleachers to their new artificial turf field...THAT could work!
First, I don’t see how the number of participating school districts matters. One, five, twenty, what’s the difference? Second what we’re talking about here is saving Civic Field, and putting lights at Peninsula’s field hardly addresses that. Third, have you ever been to a Red Devils/Loggers game? One of those teams just drove 60 miles, as well as fans and family. Maybe some of the schools further out would only participate in the co-op set up part time. Just like in Seattle, the schools wouldn’t be shouldering the cost of the stadium by themselves. We’re talking about spreading the cost over as wide an area as possible. We should be pursuing EVERY option here. Grants, State, County, Municipal, School Districts, Private, and anywhere else we can dig up a penny or two. Port Angeles has few assets, and Civic Field is one we can’t afford to lose.
I don't want my tax dollars going to a bunch of kids that don't have a job, pay any taxes, or brush their teeth regularly.
Anonymous said...
I don't want my tax dollars going to a bunch of kids that don't have a job, pay any taxes, or brush their teeth regularly.
8:20 PM, January 29, 2011
I know! Those kids need to get out of those taxpayer funded class rooms, forget any kind of education, and compete with the rest of the world for some kind of job.
Americas' future depends on this!
Let me see if I can figure out what the "city" and "city council" have to say: we're going to fussy up the waterfront, re-do the downtown sewers, and build an over/under pass at Deer Park (for the few families that live there). We're going to put up new (stupid looking) signs for the non-existent tourists. But, we aren't going to put up a jersey barrier on the S curve. We aren't going to do a thing to help local businesses. We aren't going to try and balance the budget. We aren't going to LISTEN to what you want. We aren't going to fix Civic Field, but we are going to find every way in the book to raise your taxes....
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